lesser hippias-第3章
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EUDICUS： I am sure that Hippias will be delighted to answer anything which
you would like to ask； tell me； Hippias； if Socrates asks you a question；
will you answer him？
HIPPIAS： Indeed； Eudicus； I should be strangely inconsistent if I refused
to answer Socrates； when at each Olympic festival； as I went up from my
house at Elis to the temple of Olympia； where all the Hellenes were
assembled； I continually professed my willingness to perform any of the
exhibitions which I had prepared； and to answer any questions which any one
had to ask。
SOCRATES： Truly； Hippias； you are to be congratulated； if at every Olympic
festival you have such an encouraging opinion of your own wisdom when you
go up to the temple。 I doubt whether any muscular hero would be so
fearless and confident in offering his body to the combat at Olympia； as
you are in offering your mind。
HIPPIAS： And with good reason； Socrates； for since the day when I first
entered the lists at Olympia I have never found any man who was my superior
in anything。 （Compare Gorgias。）
SOCRATES： What an ornament； Hippias； will the reputation of your wisdom be
to the city of Elis and to your parents！ But to return： what say you of
Odysseus and Achilles？ Which is the better of the two？ and in what
particular does either surpass the other？ For when you were exhibiting and
there was company in the room； though I could not follow you； I did not
like to ask what you meant； because a crowd of people were present； and I
was afraid that the question might interrupt your exhibition。 But now that
there are not so many of us； and my friend Eudicus bids me ask； I wish you
would tell me what you were saying about these two heroes； so that I may
clearly understand； how did you distinguish them？
HIPPIAS： I shall have much pleasure； Socrates； in explaining to you more
clearly than I could in public my views about these and also about other
heroes。 I say that Homer intended Achilles to be the bravest of the men
who went to Troy； Nestor the wisest； and Odysseus the wiliest。
SOCRATES： O rare Hippias； will you be so good as not to laugh； if I find a
difficulty in following you； and repeat my questions several times over？
Please to answer me kindly and gently。
HIPPIAS： I should be greatly ashamed of myself； Socrates； if I； who teach
others and take money of them； could not； when I was asked by you； answer
in a civil and agreeable manner。
SOCRATES： Thank you： the fact is； that I seemed to understand what you
meant when you said that the poet intended Achilles to be the bravest of
men； and also that he intended Nestor to be the wisest； but when you said
that he meant Odysseus to be the wiliest； I must confess that I could not
understand what you were saying。 Will you tell me； and then I shall
perhaps understand you better； has not Homer made Achilles wily？
HIPPIAS： Certainly not； Socrates； he is the most straight…forward of
mankind； and when Homer introduces them talking with one another in the
passage called the Prayers； Achilles is supposed by the poet to say to
Odysseus：
'Son of Laertes； sprung from heaven； crafty Odysseus； I will speak out
plainly the word which I intend to carry out in act； and which will； I
believe； be accomplished。 For I hate him like the gates of death who
thinks one thing and says another。 But I will speak that which shall be
accomplished。'
Now； in these verses he clearly indicates the character of the two men； he
shows Achilles to be true and simple； and Odysseus to be wily and false；
for he supposes Achilles to be addressing Odysseus in these lines。
SOCRATES： Now； Hippias； I think that I understand your meaning； when you
say that Odysseus is wily； you clearly mean that he is false？
HIPPIAS： Exactly so； Socrates； it is the character of Odysseus； as he is
represented by Homer in many passages both of the Iliad and Odyssey。
SOCRATES： And Homer must be presumed to have meant that the true man is
not the same as the false？
HIPPIAS： Of course； Socrates。
SOCRATES： And is that your own opinion； Hippias？
HIPPIAS： Certainly； how can I have any other？
SOCRATES： Well； then； as there is no possibility of asking Homer what he
meant in these verses of his； let us leave him； but as you show a
willingness to take up his cause； and your opinion agrees with what you
declare to be his； will you answer on behalf of yourself and him？
HIPPIAS： I will； ask shortly anything which you like。
SOCRATES： Do you say that the false； like the sick； have no power to do
things； or that they have the power to do things？
HIPPIAS： I should say that they have power to do many things； and in
particular to deceive mankind。
SOCRATES： Then； according to you； they are both powerful and wily； are
they not？
HIPPIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： And are they wily； and do they deceive by reason of their
simplicity and folly； or by reason of their cunning and a certain sort of
prudence？
HIPPIAS： By reason of their cunning and prudence； most certainly。
SOCRATES： Then they are prudent； I suppose？
HIPPIAS： So they arevery。
SOCRATES： And if they are prudent； do they know or do they not know what
they do？
HIPPIAS： Of course； they know very well； and that is why they do mischief
to others。
SOCRATES： And having this knowledge； are they ignorant； or are they wise？
HIPPIAS： Wise； certainly； at least； in so far as they can deceive。
SOCRATES： Stop； and let us recall to mind what you are saying； are you not
saying that the false are powerful and prudent and knowing and wise in
those things about which they are false？
HIPPIAS： To be sure。
SOCRATES： And the true differ from the falsethe true and the false are
the very opposite of each other？
HIPPIAS： That is my view。
SOCRATES： Then； according to your view； it would seem that the false are
to be ranked in the class of the powerful and wise？
HIPPIAS： Assuredly。
SOCRATES： And when you say that the false are powerful and wise in so far
as they are false； do you mean that they have or have not the power of
uttering their falsehoods if they like？
HIPPIAS： I mean to say that they have the power。
SOCRATES： In a word； then； the false are they who are wise and have the
power to speak falsely？
HIPPIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： Then a man who has not the power of speaking falsely and is
ignorant cannot be false？
HIPPIAS： You are right。
SOCRATES： And every man has power who does that which he wishes at the
time when he wishes。 I am not speaking of any special case in which he is
prevented by disease or something of that sort； but I am speaking
generally； as I might say of you； that you are able to write my name when
you like。 Would you not call a man able who could do that？
HIPPIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： And tell me； Hippias； are you not a skilful calculator and
arithmetician？
HIPPIAS： Yes； Socrates； assuredly I am。
SOCRATES： And if some one were to ask you what is the sum of 3 multiplied
by 700； you would tell him the true answer in a moment； if you pleased？
HIPPIAS： certainly I should。
SOCRATES： Is not that because you are the wisest and ablest of men in
these matters？
HIPPIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： And being as you are the wisest and ablest of men in these
matters of calculation； are you not also the best？
HIPPIAS： To be sure； Socrates； I am the best。
SOCRATES： And therefore you would be the most able to tell the truth about
these matters； would you not？
HIPPIAS： Yes； I should。
SOCRATES： And could you speak falsehoods about them equally well？ I must
beg； Hippias； that you will answer me with the same frankness and
magnanimity which has hitherto characterized you。 If a person were to ask
you what is the sum of 3 multiplied by 700； would not you be the best and
most consistent teller of a falsehood； having always the power of speaking
falsely as you have of speaking truly； about these same matters； if you
wanted to tell a falsehood； and not to answer truly？ Would the ignorant
man be better able to tell a falsehood in matters of calculation than you
would be； if you chose？ Might he not sometimes stumble upon the truth；
when he wanted to tell a lie； because he did not know； whereas you who are
the wise man； if you wanted to tell a lie would always and consistently
lie？
HIPPIAS： Yes； there you are quite right。
SOCRATES： Does the false man tell lies about other things； but not about
number； or when he is making a calculation？
HIPPIAS： To be sure； he would tell as many lies about number as about
other things。
SOCRATES： Then may we further assume； Hippias； that there are men who are
false about calculation and number？
HIPPIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： Who can they be？ For you have already admitted that he who is
false must have the ability to be false： you said； as you will remember；
that he who is unable to be false will not be false？
HIPPIAS： Yes； I remember； it was so said。
SOCRATES： And were you not yourself just now shown to be best able to
speak falsely about calculation？
HIPPIAS： Yes； that was another thing which was said。
SOCRATES： And are you not likewise said to speak truly about calculation？
HIPPIAS： Certainly。
SOCRATES： Then the same person is able to speak both falsely and truly
about calculation？ And that person is he who is good at calculationthe
arithmetician？
HIPPIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： Who； then； Hippias； is discovered to be false at calculation？
Is he not the good man？ For the good man is the able man； and he is the
true man。
HIPPIAS： That is evident。
SOCRATES： Do you not see； then； that the same man is false and also true
about the same matters？ And the true man is not a whit better than the
false； for indeed he is the same with him and not the very opposite； as you
were just now imagining。
HIPPIAS： Not in that instance； clearly。
SOCRATES： Shall we examine other instances？
HIPPIAS： Certainly； if you are disposed。
SOCRATES： Are you not also skilled in geometry？
HIPPIAS： I am。
SOCRATES： Well； and does not the same hold in that science also？ Is not
the same person best able to speak falsely or to speak truly about
diagrams； and he isthe geometrician？
HIPPIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： He and no one else is good at it？
HIPPIAS： Yes； he and no one else。
SOCRATES： Then the good and wise geometer has this double power in the
highest degree； and if there be a man who is false about diagrams the good
man will be he； for he is able to be false； whereas the bad is unable； and
for this reason is not false； as has been admitted。
HIPPIAS： True。
SOCRATES： Once morelet us examine a third case； t
