euthydemus-第10章

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What　do　you　mean；　Dionysodorus？　I　said。　　Is　not　the　honourable　honourable　and　the　base　base？

That；　he　said；　is　as　I　please。

And　do　you　please？

Yes；　he　said。

And　you　will　admit　that　the　same　is　the　same；　and　the　other　other；　for　surely　the　other　is　not　the　same；　I　should　imagine　that　even　a　child　will　hardly　deny　the　other　to　be　other。　　But　I　think；　Dionysodorus；　that　you　must　have　intentionally　missed　the　last　question；　for　in　general　you　and　your　brother　seem　to　me　to　be　good　workmen　in　your　own　department；　and　to　do　the　dialectician's　business　excellently　well。

What；　said　he；　is　the　business　of　a　good　workman？　tell　me；　in　the　first　place；　whose　business　is　hammering？

The　smith's。

And　whose　the　making　of　pots？

The　potter's。

And　who　has　to　kill　and　skin　and　mince　and　boil　and　roast？

The　cook；　I　said。

And　if　a　man　does　his　business　he　does　rightly？

Certainly。

And　the　business　of　the　cook　is　to　cut　up　and　skin；　you　have　admitted　that？

Yes；　I　have　admitted　that；　but　you　must　not　be　too　hard　upon　me。

Then　if　some　one　were　to　kill；　mince；　boil；　roast　the　cook；　he　would　do　his　business；　and　if　he　were　to　hammer　the　smith；　and　make　a　pot　of　the　potter；　he　would　do　their　business。

Poseidon；　I　said；　this　is　the　crown　of　wisdom；　can　I　ever　hope　to　have　such　wisdom　of　my　own？

And　would　you　be　able；　Socrates；　to　recognize　this　wisdom　when　it　has　become　your　own？

Certainly；　I　said；　if　you　will　allow　me。

What；　he　said；　do　you　think　that　you　know　what　is　your　own？

Yes；　I　do；　subject　to　your　correction；　for　you　are　the　bottom；　and　Euthydemus　is　the　top；　of　all　my　wisdom。

Is　not　that　which　you　would　deem　your　own；　he　said；　that　which　you　have　in　your　own　power；　and　which　you　are　able　to　use　as　you　would　desire；　for　example；　an　ox　or　a　sheepwould　you　not　think　that　which　you　could　sell　and　give　and　sacrifice　to　any　god　whom　you　pleased；　to　be　your　own；　and　that　which　you　could　not　give　or　sell　or　sacrifice　you　would　think　not　to　be　in　your　own　power？

Yes；　I　said　（for　I　was　certain　that　something　good　would　come　out　of　the　questions；　which　I　was　impatient　to　hear）；　yes；　such　things；　and　such　things　only　are　mine。

Yes；　he　said；　and　you　would　mean　by　animals　living　beings？

Yes；　I　said。

You　agree　then；　that　those　animals　only　are　yours　with　which　you　have　the　power　to　do　all　these　things　which　I　was　just　naming？

I　agree。

Then；　after　a　pause；　in　which　he　seemed　to　be　lost　in　the　contemplation　of　something　great；　he　said：　　Tell　me；　Socrates；　have　you　an　ancestral　Zeus？　　Here；　anticipating　the　final　move；　like　a　person　caught　in　a　net；　who　gives　a　desperate　twist　that　he　may　get　away；　I　said：　　No；　Dionysodorus；　I　have　not。

What　a　miserable　man　you　must　be　then；　he　said；　you　are　not　an　Athenian　at　all　if　you　have　no　ancestral　gods　or　temples；　or　any　other　mark　of　gentility。

Nay；　Dionysodorus；　I　said；　do　not　be　rough；　good　words；　if　you　please；　in　the　way　of　religion　I　have　altars　and　temples；　domestic　and　ancestral；　and　all　that　other　Athenians　have。

And　have　not　other　Athenians；　he　said；　an　ancestral　Zeus？

That　name；　I　said；　is　not　to　be　found　among　the　Ionians；　whether　colonists　or　citizens　of　Athens；　an　ancestral　Apollo　there　is；　who　is　the　father　of　Ion；　and　a　family　Zeus；　and　a　Zeus　guardian　of　the　phratry；　and　an　Athene　guardian　of　the　phratry。　　But　the　name　of　ancestral　Zeus　is　unknown　to　us。

No　matter；　said　Dionysodorus；　for　you　admit　that　you　have　Apollo；　Zeus；　and　Athene。

Certainly；　I　said。

And　they　are　your　gods；　he　said。

Yes；　I　said；　my　lords　and　ancestors。

At　any　rate　they　are　yours；　he　said；　did　you　not　admit　that？

I　did；　I　said；　what　is　going　to　happen　to　me？

And　are　not　these　gods　animals？　for　you　admit　that　all　things　which　have　life　are　animals；　and　have　not　these　gods　life？

They　have　life；　I　said。

Then　are　they　not　animals？

They　are　animals；　I　said。

And　you　admitted　that　of　animals　those　are　yours　which　you　could　give　away　or　sell　or　offer　in　sacrifice；　as　you　pleased？

I　did　admit　that；　Euthydemus；　and　I　have　no　way　of　escape。

Well　then；　said　he；　if　you　admit　that　Zeus　and　the　other　gods　are　yours；　can　you　sell　them　or　give　them　away　or　do　what　you　will　with　them；　as　you　would　with　other　animals？

At　this　I　was　quite　struck　dumb；　Crito；　and　lay　prostrate。　　Ctesippus　came　to　the　rescue。

Bravo；　Heracles；　brave　words；　said　he。

Bravo　Heracles；　or　is　Heracles　a　Bravo？　said　Dionysodorus。

Poseidon；　said　Ctesippus；　what　awful　distinctions。　　I　will　have　no　more　of　them；　the　pair　are　invincible。

Then；　my　dear　Crito；　there　was　universal　applause　of　the　speakers　and　their　words；　and　what　with　laughing　and　clapping　of　hands　and　rejoicings　the　two　men　were　quite　overpowered；　for　hitherto　their　partisans　only　had　cheered　at　each　successive　hit；　but　now　the　whole　company　shouted　with　delight　until　the　columns　of　the　Lyceum　returned　the　sound；　seeming　to　sympathize　in　their　joy。　　To　such　a　pitch　was　I　affected　myself；　that　I　made　a　speech；　in　which　I　acknowledged　that　I　had　never　seen　the　like　of　their　wisdom；　I　was　their　devoted　servant；　and　fell　to　praising　and　admiring　of　them。　　What　marvellous　dexterity　of　wit；　I　said；　enabled　you　to　acquire　this　great　perfection　in　such　a　short　time？　　There　is　much；　indeed；　to　admire　in　your　words；　Euthydemus　and　Dionysodorus；　but　there　is　nothing　that　I　admire　more　than　your　magnanimous　disregard　of　any　opinionwhether　of　the　many；　or　of　the　grave　and　reverend　seigniorsyou　regard　only　those　who　are　like　yourselves。　　And　I　do　verily　believe　that　there　are　few　who　are　like　you；　and　who　would　approve　of　such　arguments；　the　majority　of　mankind　are　so　ignorant　of　their　value；　that　they　would　be　more　ashamed　of　employing　them　in　the　refutation　of　others　than　of　being　refuted　by　them。　　I　must　further　express　my　approval　of　your　kind　and　public…spirited　denial　of　all　differences；　whether　of　good　and　evil；　white　or　black；　or　any　other；　the　result　of　which　is　that；　as　you　say；　every　mouth　is　sewn　up；　not　excepting　your　own；　which　graciously　follows　the　example　of　others；　and　thus　all　ground　of　offence　is　taken　away。　　But　what　appears　to　me　to　be　more　than　all　is；　that　this　art　and　invention　of　yours　has　been　so　admirably　contrived　by　you；　that　in　a　very　short　time　it　can　be　imparted　to　any　one。　　I　observed　that　Ctesippus　learned　to　imitate　you　in　no　time。　　Now　this　quickness　of　attainment　is　an　excellent　thing；　but　at　the　same　time　I　would　advise　you　not　to　have　any　more　public　entertainments；　there　is　a　danger　that　men　may　undervalue　an　art　which　they　have　so　easy　an　opportunity　of　acquiring；　the　exhibition　would　be　best　of　all；　if　the　discussion　were　confined　to　your　two　selves；　but　if　there　must　be　an　audience；　let　him　only　be　present　who　is　willing　to　pay　a　handsome　fee；you　should　be　careful　of　this；and　if　you　are　wise；　you　will　also　bid　your　disciples　discourse　with　no　man　but　you　and　themselves。　　For　only　what　is　rare　is　valuable；　and　'water；'　which；　as　Pindar　says；　is　the　'best　of　all　things；'　is　also　the　cheapest。　　And　now　I　have　only　to　request　that　you　will　receive　Cleinias　and　me　among　your　pupils。

Such　was　the　discussion；　Crito；　and　after　a　few　more　words　had　passed　between　us　we　went　away。　　I　hope　that　you　will　come　to　them　with　me；　since　they　say　that　they　are　able　to　teach　any　one　who　will　give　them　money；　no　age　or　want　of　capacity　is　an　impediment。　　And　I　must　repeat　one　thing　which　they　said；　for　your　especial　benefit；that　the　learning　of　their　art　did　not　at　all　interfere　with　the　business　of　money…making。

CRITO：　　Truly；　Socrates；　though　I　am　curious　and　ready　to　learn；　yet　I　fear　that　I　am　not　like…minded　with　Euthydemus；　but　one　of　the　other　sort；　who；　as　you　were　saying；　would　rather　be　refuted　by　such　arguments　than　use　them　in　refutation　of　others。　　And　though　I　may　appear　ridiculous　in　venturing　to　advise　you；　I　think　that　you　may　as　well　hear　what　was　said　to　me　by　a　man　of　very　considerable　pretensionshe　was　a　professor　of　legal　oratory　who　came　away　from　you　while　I　was　walking　up　and　down。　　'Crito；'　said　he　to　me；　'are　you　giving　no　attention　to　these　wise　men？'　　'No；　indeed；'　I　said　to　him；　'I　could　not　get　within　hearing　of　themthere　was　such　a　crowd。'　　'You　would　have　heard　something　worth　hearing　if　you　had。'　　'What　was　that？'　I　said。　　'You　would　have　heard　the　greatest　masters　of　the　art　of　rhetoric　discoursing。'　　'And　what　did　you　think　of　them？'　I　said。　　'What　did　I　think　of　them？'　he　said：'theirs　was　the　sort　of　discourse　which　anybody　might　hear　from　men　who　were　playing　the　fool；　and　making　much　ado　about　nothing。'　　That　was　the　expression　which　he　used。　　'Surely；'　I　said；　'philosophy　is　a　charming　thing。'　　'Charming！'　he　said；　'what　simplicity！　philosophy　is　nought；　and　I　think　that　if　you　had　been　present　you　would　have　been　ashamed　of　your　friendhis　conduct　was　so　very　strange　in　placing　himself　at　the　mercy　of　men　who　care　not　what　they　say；　and　fasten　upon　every　word。　　And　these；　as　I　was　telling　you；　are　supposed　to　be　the　most　eminent　professors　of　their　time。　　But　the　truth　is；　Crito；　that　the　study　itself　and　the　men　themselves　are　utterly　mean　and　ridiculous。'　　Now　censure　of　the　pursuit；　Socrates；　whether　coming　from　him　or　from　others；　appears　to　me　to　be　undeserved；　but　as　to　the　impropriety　of　holding　a　public　discussion　with　such　men；　there；　I　confess　that；　in　my　opinion；　he　was　in　the　right。

SOCRATES：　　O　Crito；　they　are　marvellous　men；　but　what　was　I　going　to　say？　　First　of　all　let　me　know；What　manner　of　man　was　he　who　came　up　to　you　and　censured　philosophy；　was　he　an　orator　who　himself　practises　in　the　courts；　or　an　instructor　of　orators；　who　makes　the　speeches　with　which　they　do　battle？

CRITO：　　He　was　certainly　not　an　orator；　and　I　doubt　whether　he　had　ever　been　into　court；　but　they　say　that　he　knows　the　business；　and　is　a　clever　man；　and　composes　wonderful　speeches。

SOCRATES：　　Now　I　understand；　Crito；　he　is　one　of　an　amphibious　class；　whom　I　was　on　the　point　of　mentioningone　of　those　whom　Prodicus　describes　as　on　the　border…ground　between　philosophers　and　statesmenthey　think　that　they　are　the　wisest　of　all　men；　and　that　they　are　generally　esteemed　the　wisest；　nothing　but　the　rivalry　of　the　philosophers　stands　in　their　way；　and　they　are　of　the　opinion　that　if　they　can　prove　the　philosophers　to　be　good　for　nothing；　no　one　will　dispute　their　title　to　the　palm　of　wisdom；　for　that　they　are　themselves　really　the　wisest；　although　they　are　apt　to　be　mauled　by　Euthydemus　and　his　friends；　when　they　get　hold　of　them　in　conversation。　　This　opinion　which　they　entertain　of　their　own　wisdom　is　very　natural；　for　they　have　a　certain　amount　of　philosophy；　and　a　certain　amount　of　political　wisdom；　there　is　reason　in　what　they　say；　for　they　argue　that　they　have　just　enough　of　both；　and　so　they　keep　out　of　the　way　of　all　risks　and　conflicts　and　reap　the　fruits　of　their　wisdom。

CRITO：　　What　do　you　say　of　them；　Socrates？　　There　is　certainly　something　specious　in　that　notion　of　theirs。

SOCRATES：　　Yes；　Crito；　there　is　more　speciousness　than　truth；　they　cannot　be　made　to　understand　the　nature　of　intermediates。　　For　all　persons　or　things；　which　are　intermediate　between　two　other　things；　and　participate　in　both　of　themif　one　of　these　two　things　i